Curse

Tolmos · Oct 10, 2010, 08:13 AM // 08:13

tl;dr: 2 chars that have only beaten prophecies (limiting hero choice) could use some team building help.

This is more of a "work with what we've got" thread. I know it will be easier when I beat nightfall and get more heroes- but for now we are focused only on what is available to us. We are both as good as newbs. She just started recently and I started at release and quit in 2006, just returning recently. Builds, any skills added from factions on, heroes... any of this is new to both of us. Be kind.

Team Build: 2 Eles, 2 Ns, 2 Rts, 1 W, 1 Mo

Problem: Ok, so I have been running with my gf through the story + things like underworld. So far things are working out pretty well but I'd like some advice on team builds. There is a big note here: So far we have ONLY beaten prophecies on these characters. This means we do not have access to a great many heroes available. What we have has worked great so far, but there is definite room for improvement... any help would be great!

I'm looking more for immediate team help rather than "Go beat nightfall". Trust me, I'm aware that beating nightfall would allow us to pull of hero spiritway, but we're not there yet and are taking our time getting there.

Available Heroes: (same for both characters)
Livia (N)
Xandra (Rt)
Vekk (E)
Tahlkora (Mo)
Acolyte Jin (R)
Koss (W)
Dunkoro (Mo)
Melonni (D)
M.O.X. (D)
Jora (W)
Kahmu (D)
Gwen (Me)
Ogden (Mo)

Current Team
Player 1: E/Mo (ER Infuser: infuse health, healing breeze, spirit bond, protective bond, ether renewal, aura of resto, life attunement, ressurect)
Hero 1: Livia (N/Me Minion Bomber: Jagged Bones, Animate Bone Minions, Death Nova, Masochism, Putrid Bile, rez signet, leech signet, signet of lost souls
Hero 2: Xandra (Rt/Me SoS Rit: SoS, Bloodsong, Ancestor's Rage, Spirit Siphon, Spirit Light, Mend Body and Soul, Flesh of my Flesh, Power Drain)
Hero 3: Vekk (E/Me Searing Flames Elementalist: Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, Liquid Flame, Aura of Resto, Fire Attunement, Leech Signet, Power Drain, Rez Signet)

Player 2: W/Para (Dwarven Hammer: Crude Swing, Whirlwind Attack, Anthem of Weariness, Auspicious Blow, "For Great Justice", Dwarven Battle Stance, Dwarven Stability, Lion's Comfort)
Hero 4: Livia (N/Me Minion Bomber: EXACT same as hero 1)
Hero 5: Xandra (Rt/Me: SoS Rit: EXACT same as Hero 2)
Hero 6: Ogden (Word of Healing, Dwayna's Kiss, Ethereal Light, Heaven's Delight, Cure Hex, Leech Signet, Power Drain, Ressurect)

ANY changes you can see (With the exception of the warrior player's personal build. Hero builds are fine to change) to the builds, team setup, anything- please help. So far we haven't really had any major difficulty in some places but I can see room for improvement for sure. Thanks in advance!

Klance · Oct 10, 2010, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Basic problem is that you have too much healing, unless the area is filled with disruption and enchantment removal, the ER can quite easily carry the team himself if you can play it well.

Don't carry a rez on the ER player, add a pve skill (like GDW) or protective spirit (if bonds get's stripped) or something else like vigorous spirit/shield guardian.

For the warrior, FGJ is just powering whirlwind attack, which seems a waste of a skill slot. Since you have a human ER already, lion's comfort seems pointless as well. I'd simply just add asuran scan and another pve skill.

You can't have multiple copies of the same spirit, so TWO SoS is majorly redundant. Switch on the the rits to communing (SOGM, boon of creation, pain, anguish, disenchantment etc, there are leftover points for a spec into curses for enfeebling blood or smiting for SoH if needed). If the ER is NOT carrying GDW the remaining SoS rit needs to put splinter weapon onto their bar.

Honestly i don't see a need for two minion bombers unless the area is corpse rich. And the heal monk is pointless assuming you know how to ER.

That leaves you with two slots. I'd definitely use one of them on a mesmer (either panic or ineptitude depending on the area), that frees the secondary on the remaining nec bomber (either fill it with smite, prots or heals would be the best).

The last one is an open slot that should depend on the area (a smite support if you don't fit SoH onto the rit would be the best option i feel).

I don't PERSONALLY like the searing flame ele especially if you playing on HM and it's especially pointless at the end of prophecies against titans. But otherwise its passable. If you want to switch it, you can make it ER prot instead, and you can run an AP bar on your ele player char (AP, YMLAD, FH, EVAS, GoLE + air attunement/chain lightning/lightning orb OR earth attunement/churning earth/eruption).

Tolmos · Oct 10, 2010, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klance

Basic problem is that you have too much healing, unless the area is filled with disruption and enchantment removal, the ER can quite easily carry the team himself if you can play it well.

Don't carry a rez on the ER player, add a pve skill (like GDW) or protective spirit (if bonds get's stripped) or something else like vigorous spirit/shield guardian.

For the warrior, FGJ is just powering whirlwind attack, which seems a waste of a skill slot. Since you have a human ER already, lion's comfort seems pointless as well. I'd simply just add asuran scan and another pve skill.

You can't have multiple copies of the same spirit, so TWO SoS is majorly redundant. Switch on the the rits to communing (SOGM, boon of creation, pain, anguish, disenchantment etc, there are leftover points for a spec into curses for enfeebling blood or smiting for SoH if needed). If the ER is NOT carrying GDW the remaining SoS rit needs to put splinter weapon onto their bar.

Honestly i don't see a need for two minion bombers unless the area is corpse rich. And the heal monk is pointless assuming you know how to ER.

That leaves you with two slots. I'd definitely use one of them on a mesmer (either panic or ineptitude depending on the area), that frees the secondary on the remaining nec bomber (either fill it with smite, prots or heals would be the best).

The last one is an open slot that should depend on the area (a smite support if you don't fit SoH onto the rit would be the best option i feel).

I don't PERSONALLY like the searing flame ele especially if you playing on HM and it's especially pointless at the end of prophecies against titans. But otherwise its passable. If you want to switch it, you can make it ER prot instead, and you can run an AP bar on your ele player char (AP, YMLAD, FH, EVAS, GoLE + air attunement/chain lightning/lightning orb OR earth attunement/churning earth/eruption).

Awesome info! Can you think of any other options for the final hero slot on the ER Elementalist? Any of the non-used heroes is fine. I've gotten pretty attached to playing ER myself so I'd prefer not to pass that on to the NPC unless we would run with two.

I would not go so far as to say I am proficient at ER. "Passable" at best. I've gotten to the point that I don't screw it up but I imagine that in the end there are far more efficient players out there who use it. Due to that, we've had the Monk running backup. However, if we were to remove that monk what would you suggest in its place?

I definitely appreciate the info on the ritualists! I didn't realize the dual SoS rits wouldn't work properly together. Whenever we run I'm so focused on the red bars I don't get much chance to count how many spirits I see. =D Thanks for the info on that!

Klance · Oct 10, 2010, 12:53 PM // 12:53

If you don't feel that comfortable running ER then i would advise you switch one of the minion bombers to go monk secondary with prots. Two minion skills, death nova, masochism, SoLS, and 3 prots, pick from aegis, prot spirit, spirit bond, aegis if you feel that you can't prot quickly enough or alternatively go with. If you feel that you can't catch spikes/degen with infuse health fast enough then replace the 3 prots with 3 rit heals.

Honestly even a passable ER+SoS Resto+Necro with prot/heals is more than enough defense to get you through most of the game, even on HM (barring the Elite areas).

The use of the last slot is area dependent, some option would be:

UA smite support or RoJ smite support
Curses Nec or second minion bomber
Second Mesmer
Barrage/BHA ranger

Tolmos · Oct 10, 2010, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klance

If you don't feel that comfortable running ER then i would advise you switch one of the minion bombers to go monk secondary with prots. Two minion skills, death nova, masochism, SoLS, and 3 prots, pick from aegis, prot spirit, spirit bond, aegis if you feel that you can't prot quickly enough or alternatively go with. If you feel that you can't catch spikes/degen with infuse health fast enough then replace the 3 prots with 3 rit heals.

Honestly even a passable ER+SoS Resto+Necro with prot/heals is more than enough defense to get you through most of the game, even on HM (barring the Elite areas).

The use of the last slot is area dependent, some option would be:

UA smite support or RoJ smite support
Curses Nec or second minion bomber
Second Mesmer
Barrage/BHA ranger

What about a warrior hero (like Jora) for the last slot? Any chance that could work?

Life Bringing · Oct 10, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18

You generally want to avoid melee heroes if you're looking to have an effective team. Melee heroes have notoriously terrible AI and are more likely to get your party killed than help it. I would definitely drop resurrect on the WoH because it's the worst rez in the game. I would also put PwK onto the SoS in place of power drain because it's an amazing skill that heroes use extremely well.

The monk can be covered for fairly easily. ER+2 /rt hybrids should be more than enough. The SoS and a me/Rt panic will get you some nice results.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 11, 2010, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Which area specifically are you trying to do? Factions? Nightfall? Eotn? Hard mode or normal mode?

How come the player bars can't be changed? You should go for maximum offense on player bars IMO, speeds things up.

Tolmos · Oct 11, 2010, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Which area specifically are you trying to do? Factions? Nightfall? Eotn? Hard mode or normal mode?

How come the player bars can't be changed? You should go for maximum offense on player bars IMO, speeds things up.

I don't mind changing up the elementalist but the warrior is very happy with her build and I wouldn't really like changing up. I chose ER on the ele because the general reaction I got on forums was "Eles suck unless they run a monk bar".

As for areas- at the current moment we are working on Underworld, but really we are huffing through the whole game from start to finish. Once finish up the underworld (we're getting there slowly) we'll make our way through each campaign one a time until we beat EotN

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 11, 2010, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Eles only suck in HM and since you haven't completed the campaigns yet you can't play in HM anyway. (Personally I don't understand why people do, but that's just me.)

UW is a special place, but for the general campaigns here are some builds you could consider:

Hero 1: Mo/Me 12+3, 10+1, 8 (roj, smite hex+cond, soh, pdrain, leech sig, div healing, some res)
Hero 2: N/Mo 12+4, 10+1, 7, 4 (jagged bones, sols, minions, putrid bile, death nova, dwaynas sorrow, cure hex, aegis)
Hero 3: R/P 12+2, 8+1, 10 (barrage, light reflex, dshot, savage shot, gfte, stand your ground, fall back, sig of return)

Hero 4: Mo/Me 12+3, 10+1, 8 (roj, smite hex+cond, soh, pdrain, leech sig, div healing, reversal of dmg, smiters boon)
Hero 5: N/Rt 12+4, 8+1, 10 (jagged bones, sols, minions, putrid bile, death nova, mend body and soul, death pact signet)
Hero 6: Rt/Me 11+3, 11+1, 5+1, 7 (SoS, splinter weapon, a-rage, weapon of warding, spirit light, life, destruction/bloodsong, pdrain)

I'd change the player bars too, simply to deal more dmg. War should run sword or axe with an IAS(increased attack speed) to get more effect out of SoH. Flail+dash or something. Whirlwind attack is great obviously.

The ele could run an AP nuker of some kind, or I guess stay ER but try to find great dwarf weapon to put on the war. Strong stuff.

TalanRoarer · Oct 13, 2010, 11:33 PM // 23:33

GG on the ER bonder, not many of us about anymore. (That don't run Burning speed lameway.)

Ok, cba reading what other people put but heres what i think.

Drop the res on your ER bar. Add Protective Spirit. (Vital Cover if PB is stripped). Drop Healing Breeze and take Great Dwarf Weapon if you have it.

Next, have the warrior take Save Yourselves! 82% Damage reduction says ohai.

If you craft some Essences of Celerity, you should be able to bond all 8 party members no problem. If not, run a 12/12/3 split and buy some candy that gives you +1 on attributes. 13 Prot Prayers puts PB at -3.

Drop the SF ele (Fire damage sucks on HM, I'd rather take a Sin hero if I was ERing.).

You only need 1 SoS Rt, otherwise they will kill each others spirits. (Use SoGM if you really want to take 2 Rt heroes.)

Drop an MB, 1 is enough.

So, now I'm going to add some variety, if you have GDW on your ER bar, I suggest taking mainly physical based heroes in the remaining slots. If not, I suggest a Panic mes.

Most things in Gw are doable with an ER ele on the backline. I strongly suggest you look into getting GDW as this can turn defensive heroes (e.g paragons) into huge damage dealers also.

HigherMinion · Oct 14, 2010, 05:09 PM // 17:09

The fun you can have with ER; wake up Anton and Zenmai, load them with WotA- Jagged-Fox-Blossom- two-three Shadowsteps and Frenzy.

Bond them. Lol. Win.